Paul Maughan-Brown 0:00 But really our aim is to demonstrate that you don't have to compromise on the function or performance of the product by choosing a material that is completely sustainable. Lena Samford 0:14 Welcome neighbors to hometown or the podcast that brings it down to earth approach to all of your sustainability questions. I'm your host, Lena Samford here on the belief Podcast Network, the number one Podcast Network for professionals. Here we believe that everyone can change the world. Do you believe I'm a Midwest gal with big dreams to discover what it takes to reduce my impact on this beautiful place we call hometown or join me every Tuesday as we navigate what actions we can take big or small to make a positive impact in your life and the lives of your neighbors on hometown Earth. Hello neighbors. Did you know that every year over 31 billion bottles of wine are consumed worldwide. And I know I definitely played my part in that statistic. But instead of letting all of that cork go to waste, SOLE and ReCORK stepped in, and with the help of their recycling partners re cork has collected over 110 million corks and counting. And stands as North America's largest natural wine cork recycling program. Cork is an amazing product of nature. cork oak trees are huge carbon sinks by locking away carbon in their bark. information from the ReCORK website says that every time a cork oak is harvested, it begins to regenerate its bark again. This process is also great for the planet as more carbon is taken out of the atmosphere and locked away in its new bark. When the time comes to harvest the bark of the tree, which is what wine corks are made of. It has done so by hand only every nine years. This process causes no environmental damage and not a single tree gets cut down. Isn't that amazing? And trust me, it only gets better. Today you'll hear from Paul mourn Brown, the content manager for the Canadian supportive footwear brand SOLE and their natural wine cork recycling program ReCORK, Paul grew up in South Africa moved to Canada in 2018 and found his home working with a company that exists to make a truly positive impact on both people and plane it. Since its launch in 2001 SOLE has helped millions of happy customers live life to the fullest with pain free feet, so launched record in 2008 to extend the useful life of a naturally sustainable material cork to use it as a sustainable alternative to petroleum based synthetics. Now record is on the brink of releasing record recycled cork, a revolutionary material that they believe will change the way people think about sustainability in the footwear industry. In this episode, we chat about the holistic approach to sustainability at SOLE and ReCORK their new record material and co2 initiative. And Paul shares his perspective on how to look at cork and sustainability in a new way. I had so much fun learning from this interview and I'm excited that I now have a reason to buy more wine and save the corks giving them a new laugh on my feet. But without any further delay, I'll put a cork in it and get on to the interview. Well Paul, thank you so much for joining us on hometown earth if you don't mind just introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about what you do and why you love your job. Paul Maughan-Brown 4:00 Firstly, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. I'm here in Vancouver BC and ReCork and natural wine cork recycling program. And it might be might seem like a strange combination of brands that have under under one roof. But basically what we do is we take wine corks and post industrial cork and we recycle it to create the most sustainable footwear products on the market. And I love it because it's just sort of fits straight into my wheelhouse of interests. The products themselves are used a lot by people - well, all range of people. But a lot of performance athletes, they're really there to take care of your feet. And I do a lot of my feet. I love running and hiking and snowboarding and being outdoors in general. And that sphere of interest links really nicely with the real prioritization of sustainability and, you know, there's a real focus in the company on living life to the fullest and enjoying the planet, you know, our home and taking care of it at the same time. Lena Samford 5:38 So you kind of get the word out about all both of those brands. And what does there been any highlights of your career there that are kind of fun anecdotes, or anything you want to share about? Your you're the face almost, Paul Maughan-Brown 5:53 yeah, it's it's kind of become By default, the face. You know, one of the things that's great about it is that the is that it's a relatively small company. We've been around for for a long time, but still a relatively small operation. So I've had the great ability to sort of shape shape the voice of the brands of the last few years that I've been working there, just sort of took it upon myself to start creating some social media content and video contents, I have a history of working in the film industry back at home in South Africa. So the great thing about the brand is that they're so open to us sort of taking your role and running with it and turning it into the best version of it that that you have in your mind. And I'm from South Africa, you know, I'm from, I'm from Cape Town, which is a beautiful, fantastic place and had a variety of different jobs there. But something that's been great as pre pre pandemic was going out to Denver and going to the Outdoor Retailer tradeshow and feeling like I was really in the heart of, of the engine room, almost of the outdoor industry, where all the big brands are there to, to meet and discuss and show what they have on offer feels like a little kid and a little kid in a candy store most Lena Samford 7:15 well. So if you don't mind, kind of you kind of mentioned it, what is, you know, how is ReCORK and SOLE different? And kind of what's the vision for ReCORK specifically? Paul Maughan-Brown 7:27 Sure. So I mean, I'll give you the the sort of background story of ReCORK, I guess, which will help to explain it, which is that. So I'll see you Mike started SOLE in 2001, to make affordable over the counter installs that could perform the same function as a prescription orthotic. But but at an affordable price. And a few years down the line, you'd sort of thinking really hard about how do I how do I do the same thing, but do it in a more sustainable way? What is the material that we can use? How can we improve our processes to do this in a way that that reduces our impact or in a dream world actually ends up having a positive impacts rather than just mitigating the negative impact that you have inherently as as a producer of goods. And he was in quite a quite a typical Canadian story. When he was in a lake house, he was at a friend's house. Is that a Canadian thing and there's just so many lakes here in South Africa, you know, there's no such thing as big houses in South Africa. Anyway, he was at his friend's lake house, and he was admiring this cork flooring, which had been there for 60 years. And there was this beautiful It felt great underfoot and it looked nice and it you know, been preserved really impressively over 60 years and the light bulb went off and said like maybe cork is the is the thing, maybe cork is the material I've been I've been sort of dreaming about and sure enough he did his research and and figured out just exactly how sustainable cork is. which we'll get to I'm sure one thing led to another and he sort of said well, how can we sort cork in a in a practical way that people will be really enthusiastic about and and what happens to wine corks after they are used and the idea of ReCORK was born. And so that was in 2008. So launched ReCORK as a way for people and businesses around North America to collect and recycle their natural corks. Lena Samford 9:44 I don't think people realize that you know, your soles or your shoes or air, even your shoes in general are plastic. Most of them are plastic. Paul Maughan-Brown 9:55 That's the thing. This it's a huge it's sort of a it's a big man. hurdle to get over really is that people don't realize how much of what you use and interact with on an on a day to day basis is plastic, it may not feel like a plastic shopping bag, or what have you. But it's a type of plastic that foams in almost all running shoes and sneakers. Those are a type of plastic that derived from fossil fuels. So that one of the major ones is ethyl vinyl acetate, which is ethylene, which is manipulated in refineries to create this spongy, super high performance, material, but a material that is derived directly from fossil fuels as part of the fossil fuel industry. It's a huge part of the fossil fuel industry. When we talk about fossil fuel industry, people think about, you know, gasoline, and that's the, your brain immediately goes through that, but it's really so much more than that. And so that was one of the things about cork in particular was the idea of how to, you know, it's all very well to make something that's sustainable, but it's not sustainable. If it doesn't perform the same function, Lena Samford 11:11 right, then people won't use it. Paul Maughan-Brown 11:14 People won't use it, people won't be interested in it. And people will throw it away. You know, if it if it doesn't work the way that it should work. It's Yeah, it's not helpful to have something that's that's trash. Lena Samford 11:29 Yeah. So let's kind of talk about that. Just generally the sustainability of cork and kind of, you know, that process of essentially harvesting cork. Paul Maughan-Brown 11:42 Yeah, sure. So, I mean, let me backtrack one step. Yeah. Which is, which is to speak to those sort of inherent performance qualities of cork. Yeah, this is one of the things that's so fantastic. It's, it's naturally moisture wicking, it's naturally buoyant, it's naturally insulating, it's great for temperature insulation, naturally antimicrobial it's hugely versatile. It's a hugely versatile material it's been used for everything from flooring to insulating buildings to you know, it's in spaceships. I don't know if you know this, but as part of the construction of the first i don't know i don't want to I don't want to misspeak here but I believe that they that they insulated, that they needed a material that was light enough to insulate the capsule upon re entry into the atmosphere, I think and cope was that but it definitely wasn't. It's in space travel. Yeah, yeah. So it's amazingly versatile material, but it's also incredibly self sustainable. So it's one of these it's a it's, it's almost unique in that it's has a vast potential variety of human applications at the same time as being fantastically sustainable. So why is this so sustainable as it grows as the bark of a coke oak tree? Lena Samford 13:07 That kind of blew my mind, I'll have to tell you, because I was like, looking into Reed cork, and I drink a lot of wine. So you know, that's kind of how I found y'all. And I was just like, Are you kidding me? Like it's the bark of it? I had no idea. Paul Maughan-Brown 13:21 Exactly. So it kind of it's funny because it grows on trees. But yeah. It's super material that literally grows on trees. But it's, it's as the bark, which is really unique. So most trees and it's a big tree, it's an oak tree, it's a tiny tree, so they grow to sort of 20 meters tall. I don't know what that is in feet on the spot. But I remember when I was young, always learning that too. One of the methods of controlling invasive species of trees was that they would ring bark, the trees, they would cut a section of bark out of the tree, and that would if as long as they went the whole way around the tree, they would effectively killed the tree. But cork has this this unique outer layer of its bark, which at the right time of year, can be separated from the rest of the bark and actually just peel the way off the tree. Literally like peeling of fruits almost. And it's it's during the summer months. And it grows in mainland Mediterranean, Europe and North Africa. And they harvest that by hand that drive into cork forest and with just with an axe in a sort of highly skilled trade that's passed down over generations. Yeah, yeah, they just make cuts in the bark that doesn't actually harm the tree and peel away strips of bark off the tree and then what happens is that that tree regenerates its bark it grows the path back over the Next nine to 12 years. So the tree will be, yeah, the tree will be harvested once every nine to 12 years. So once a decade, you get a fresh crop of this cork. Yeah, the trees not cut down, it's actually illegal to cut down a cork tree in Portugal, Portugal as the the main hub of cork, you want to cut down a cork tree, you've got to write to the government and get written permission to do it. It's like a secret. It's a national tree. Lena Samford 15:27 I wish that was all trees. Right? Paul Maughan-Brown 15:29 Exactly. So And what's even more remarkable, is that if you think about it, the way that a plant grows is through photosynthesis. And the way that works is that they are absorbing carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. And you know, the whole planet major problem is the amount of carbon dioxide that's in the atmosphere. Yeah. And so when you say, so not in that cork, not only have you been you the the tree has been growing for the last 10 years in order to to grow that cork bark. But then when you take away the bark, the tree now has to suddenly stimulate a whole lot more regrowth so you actually boost the carbon absorption of the tree by up to five times while it works to regrow The Spark. Lena Samford 16:23 If you're doing it sustainably then it really is helping you know it's carbon negative, essentially, Paul Maughan-Brown 16:29 exactly, that's exactly what it is. It's a it's a deeply carbon negative material. So in the end, you know, the scientific research shows that for every tonne of cork harvested from the cork, Oak Forest, cork oak trees absorb an average of 55 tons of co2, that's insane. So and the upper level of the scale is up to 73 tonnes. So whatever. You know, when you have a wine cork, that wine cork is worth 73 times its own weight in carbon dioxide absorbed from the atmosphere. Yeah, wow, that's really like this incredible material. Yeah, that's totally sustainable and regrows. And those trees grow. That's the other thing that's worth noting is those trees grow for upwards of 200 years. And that's one important thing. One sort of basic concepts in carbon sequestration is that the bigger and denser trees, wood, the more carbon dioxide it absorbs. So there really is sort of a model crop, Lena Samford 17:37 and then extends their loss once you're harvesting them like that, and everything. It's just so crazy. So yeah, well, so as far as like, we're talking about this is one cork. So like is is one cork, just like the main source that is used for cork, but what are the main product that is made with cork? Paul Maughan-Brown 17:58 Yeah, so, um, I guess we chose it because it is so sustainable. And it is we can make we can make what we want to make out of it. That was sort of priority number one is choose a material that will fill the function that we that we need from it, do it in a way that sustainably and I think we really liked the idea. I mean, we it was it was really before my time at the company. But I think one of the things that was really inspiring to them was there's this incredibly valuable, sustainable material that people are throwing away. Lena Samford 18:35 They're just popping it in a bottle and then throwing it away. Paul Maughan-Brown 18:38 And and the thing is when you when you have that wine cork in your hand, people have a sense generally like this is not this, this is a special thing in some way. A lot of people will be Oh, what am I going to do with this cork? It feels to feel too good to just check it out. Right? But what do I do with it? Lena Samford 18:55 Is there not recyclable in regular recycling? No, Paul Maughan-Brown 18:59 exactly. You need a specific program in order to do it. But to answer your question in terms of the industry as a whole they wine corks are the the main product from from the sort of top 30% of the quality of cork bark that they get from from that cork, that'll they'll actually punch the cork out of the bark. They'll take it as a sheet and literally punch a hole in it and punch out the cork. And then with the the leftovers from that though, that becomes post industrial, recycled. So we get part of our recycling stream comes from the trimmings. Exactly, yeah, but it'll also be used in a variety of other applications, like cork boards and coasters and yeah, cork fabrics. Lena Samford 19:56 So essentially y'all get all of these corks, and And you grind them down and make them into just a sheet of cork like what does that look like? And do you make them into the coasters and stuff like that or just the this the soles. Unknown Speaker 20:12 So for the sake of clarity, we get the courts both from kitchens and restaurants around North America. And we we do get a certain percentage direct from the cook industry as a post industrial. So we have post consumer and post industrial inputs into our recycling stream. And then what we do personally, ourselves is, is turn it into re cork recycled cork, and in terms of Sole. Sole then uses recaulk, recycled cork to create insoles and sandals, footwear products, right. But that's not necessarily. We have had also in the past, recall specific products and we had a yoga block called the 198 block, which took 198 wine corks to create Lena Samford 21:02 Wow, they're so small, that's hard. Paul Maughan-Brown 21:06 Yeah. They get ground down and packed in. Lena Samford 21:10 interesting. Paul Maughan-Brown 21:11 But yeah, at the moment, our focus is on our new formula of ReCORK recycled cork, which is, is going to it's going to be in a new shoe, which I can show you in a second. But it's it's not going to be just for our own use. We've got some really exciting collaborations with other brands coming coming down the pipe. So yeah, we're looking forward to, you know, I'll hope really is that we can have as big an impact as possible in the footwear industry, to begin with saying is that's our wheelhouse, if you will, and beyond in time, but really our aim is to show to demonstrate that you don't have to compromise on the function or performance of a product by choosing a material that is completely sustainable to manufacturing. Yeah, us. Lena Samford 22:11 Well, I can you mentioned, I mean, you are hiking traveling a lot like you're the face of seeing all the awesome, beautiful hikes on the ReCORK page on the SOLE page. So essentially, like, what is the longest? Or how many pairs of SOLEs do you have? And what's the, you know, longest and hardest? You've kind of run them out? Because I mean, that's what we're talking about is that it can be sustainable. And you know, some pairs of shoes I've owned for a long time and high denim and they still are holding up. So I think a lot of people think of cork cork boards, you know, they don't really hold up that well. And they don't you know, different cork products, even wine cork sometimes break off. So I think that's probably what's in a lot of people's heads and maybe a misconception about these cork products. So when you're like the longest or hardest, you've kind of ran the soles, Paul Maughan-Brown 23:07 I mean, I've had some in my running shoes that run with us three to four times a week. Yeah, I've had them for, you know, two or three years now. I guess it varies for different people, you know, yeah. And look, we'll I'll be it's, it's something that's been very important to us is continually refining our processes for recycling the cork. Yeah, and it is a tricky material to work with. And we have had in the past some difficulties with exactly that it can be, it can be slightly brittle at times. So we'll even sometimes recommend to people, you know, I can show you right here. So, however, so footbed. And you can see all of this is completely ground up wine corks. And so will sometimes say to people, if you're going to be taking this and moving it between all of your different shoes on a daily from going in and out and in an afternoon and art, then you might be better off choosing the version of this that we make from the EVA because we do have an alternative. It's not only core products, but we also have the EVA version. But if it's going to be going in, and you're going to be leaving it in your shoe and say your favorite pair of hiking boots or your favorite pair of running shoes, or whatever it is it's going to stay in there. Maybe take it out every now and then. Lena Samford 24:31 That's the point. Paul Maughan-Brown 24:34 Exactly, yeah. But a one for one. And people do you know because yeah, people people just love the feel of a footbed so much that they say well, I couldn't be bothered to check them in and out every so it's a it's a great addition, people will be like new shoes. Yeah, new pair of SOLEs. But so the fantastic thing having said that is is that what we've been working on for for a long time is perfect. expecting a new way of actually recycling the cork to create our new ReCORK recycled cork, which is super durable. We can control how soft it is how much cushioning it has, it's incredibly light. And so the the result of that is that we've made it this is it's debuting in this midsole Unknown Speaker 25:29 That's a beautiful shoe. If you're listening to this I'm looking at a beautiful pair of shoes right now. Paul Maughan-Brown 25:39 So this is I mean it's a very cool shoe as well. So we made it in collaboration with a brand called united by blue. Who based in Philadelphia, and they created what happened was we designed the whole shoe and so we created this this material, this midsole material. And we thought, well we want to we're going to make us into footwear, but we don't want to just stop at the midsole like let's let's let's push us as far as we can go let's see how sustainable we can make it from from from tongue to tread, the sort of the catchphrase and so it's merino wool, recycled recycled PT laces, merino wool upper, the insole is going to be made out of a green EVA, sugar cane based green EVA which is actually carbon negative as well from the carbon trappings the sugarcane. The outsole is made with natural rubber. You can see it's got these kind of cool Yeah, even even designed things like oh, well we're going to make we need grip on the bottom. How do we make it grippy instead of adding on more rather well, we'll just cut some of it out. So that's great, but it's less material, achieving the same purpose. So that was really the whole idea was a shoe that from top to bottom is made with with natural or recycled or sustainable materials that do the same job as a purely synthetic alternative. Lena Samford 27:07 Yeah, yeah, man, blazing that for sure. Cuz I even tried to find anybody else that was really doing what y'all were doing all together, you know, you've got all these WORKING PIECES. And that's what I love about ReCORK and SOLE is that it's all y'all are all transparent about how you're working together and making these awesome products. Paul Maughan-Brown 27:28 And it's sort of a holistic approach. Yeah. You know, it's like, we're each decision that gets made gets made from a perspective of looking at the overall impact, looking at function, sustainability, efficiency, whatever it might be. But I'll just say that the last piece of this is so it's, it's got this sort of baffled installation. And so the shoe as a whole was actually nominated for an outdoor retailer Innovation Award. And at that, at that event, the winners of that award were united by blue who wanted with the bison shield installation, so they take bison for that's a byproduct of the ranching industry. And they said don't just throw that away, we'll use that that's, that's like the highest performing natural installation father, and they create this bison shield installation from that. So that was sort of the final piece piece of the puzzle. And we've got this whole shoe we've got all of these different components. And yeah, we approached you know about blue and then together we, Lena Samford 28:37 that's no, so when can when Can people buy those shoes or even you know, find out more about them? Paul Maughan-Brown 28:45 Yeah, um, so coming up soon and in a couple of weeks, we're going to be releasing them on a it's going to be a limited production run. We actually released them on Kickstarter a couple of years ago. The shoe was super well received and very quickly reached our funding goal. Yeah. With COVID and we've had some setbacks along the way. And but really the the main thing was we wanted to be 100% sure that the cork midsole that went into that shoe was going to be the very best possible version of the the formula, the actual material. We wanted to make sure it was completely dialed in before we sent it out. So it's been it's been a couple years coming they've already a certain proportion of the the production run is allocated to Kickstarter backers who are finally going to get their shoes we're all super excited to get the shoes out to the back is Lena Samford 29:47 about that r&d team is just so happy. They're they're so happy that it's finally getting out to the world. Unknown Speaker 29:53 For sure. We all were also excited. We've all been been waiting and Yeah, looking forward to it immensely. Of course, the r&d team, it's no time to rest they straight up. Next thing it's Yeah. Yeah might be might pop a cork or two. But yeah, then so the remainder of the shoes are going to be made available as early as the next couple of weeks on a made for you. So we've launched this new production model, which is aimed at being sort of a more sustainable production model overall, where you can come onto the SOLE websites, and you can order a pair of, in this case, the the Jasper Chuck is the SOLE and UBB Jasper chuckers is and you say I want to pair, this is my this is the size, I want them the color that I want. And we say fantastic, thanks very much, we're going to make those shoes for you. Yeah, you get them at a discounted rate, because you're going to have to wait a few months in order to get them. But what it does is it helps us a lot with forecasting our ordering. So if we're ordering a batch of footwear, and we can see that out of the people who have ordered on a made view, or made for them basis, they was you know, we know what the curve is in terms of sizes, but also colors who you know, what's actually going to be more popular the season, that sort of thing. So what we what ends up doing is avoiding having wasted stuff. Lena Samford 31:34 Over production in general. Paul Maughan-Brown 31:36 Exactly, exactly. So yeah, it'll be there'll be available on online at your SOLE.com in the coming weeks. Lena Samford 31:46 You kind of mentioned it a little bit. Part of another aspect of what you're doing. We're just branching all out here. This the co2 negative initiative, is that a record thing? Or is that a sole thing that all of y'all together? How does that? Paul Maughan-Brown 32:01 That's a bit of both right? So we're about it. So SOLE, ReCORK - we're all the same people. Yeah. But we do hats, you know, yeah, exactly. Exactly. different, different. Well, the same email signature, actually. Yeah. But so that was that was a key part of our whole process. And our whole way of thinking about the products that we're making is that people really deserve to know what impacts a product that they are buying is going to have. And the key the most important measure today and in the face of the climate crisis is what what does this product do in terms of carbon dioxide equivalent greenhouse gas emissions. So co2 negative is an initiative to brand to promote and provide branding for or labeling rather for a product's carbon impact. Lena Samford 33:09 So it's a certification that people can get. Unknown Speaker 33:12 It's a it's a certification that people can get but but but not just a certification, it's really a, it's really trying to drive a movement to say, we believe all products should be labeled with the impacts, we believe you should be able to just like you pick up a chocolate bar or a can of whatever in the grocery store. And there's a list on there that tells you how many calories and it tells you what what's the impact on your body of this thing that I'm about to consume? What's the impact on the planet of this item that I'm going to buy? And so co2 negative, we say that all products should be should be labeled with their carbon impact. And we also provide carbon negative certification and labeling if you can show us that your product is carbon negative, or if your product is carbon positive, and you have taken steps to offset at least 110% of the impact nice Yeah, yeah. So the we have a line of these footbeds the performance prepared with solar certified carbon negative because they made with primarily because they're made with the cork. Unknown Speaker 34:24 That looks at the entire lifestyle, so or the lifecycle rather of the of the product so that's why cork is so fantastic. Unknown Speaker 34:34 So and it's no, you know, we're all about transparency and being thourough and you know, so we can we contracted third party experts and lifecycle analyses and they conducted a thorough analysis of this product of the performance footbed product nice. And we've got a measure of exactly where our where our impacts were in terms of the product And then we calculated the amount of carbon absorbed by cork oak trees while growing the cork on a per week basis. Remember earlier, I said that cork has a you know, it's got a maximum of 73 times its own weight of co2 absorbed? We didn't use that number because we didn't want to like artificially the sales. Yeah, exactly. So we said, okay, no, we take the average, you know, we're going to take that, which is the sensible thing to do, we take the average amount of co2 absorbed by a cork oak tree growing cork. And we use that on a per week basis to calculate how much co2 has been absorbed by cork oak trees and growing the cork that we that we've used in this product. And then the impact of the entire lifecycle gets added to that. And the result is still in the case of the cork footbeds carbon negative impacts. Lena Samford 35:56 I think that's really great. Like, I agree, I think people do need to know exactly, you know, what the consumption is there, because it's almost like you mentioned earlier people associate, you know, fossil fuels with with gasoline or anything like that. And I think that partially is because you know, when you go to a gas station, you know exactly how much that's costing you, you know, exactly, you can see it. And I think that's why people can say, Okay, well yeah, I'm going to start driving my car or something like that, and know, maybe exactly how much that they're reducing. And so having that labeling on there, and that transparency really can help people connect it in their minds for things that a shoe like we said, most people don't know that that's plastic. So I think it would definitely help start to bridge those those gaps for people. So I'm really excited about that. Have y'all had much rollout on that yet? Or getting people signed up? Paul Maughan-Brown 36:54 It's a it's sort of slow and steady start? Yeah, um, you know, we focus primarily on on on the products that we make ourselves to begin with to sort of verify exactly, you know, how the processes are going to work, how calculation is going to work. But we're looking forward to more collaboration in the future, for sure. And I think first and foremost, from a personal point of view, at least, it feels fantastic to be working within an organization, that part of the voice for good, if you know what I mean. So it's like, it's like, no matter how many brands we get signed up or certified, or it's about spreading the word, spreading the message. You know, ultimately, what I think what I would definitely like to see and what I think I can speak on behalf of the company, we would love to see it be be legislated, you know, yeah, it's only what something a lot of people don't know. It's only as recently as the mid 90s, that data became legislated required that you have to have nutrition labeling on food. Yeah, right. So what does you know, it's not on a lot of stuff. But so why don't say, okay, sorry, the law is people have to be able to get an impression or have have a reliable idea of their own impact. So from now on, if you make something you go to labelers, with how much impact it has. Lena Samford 38:29 Yeah, there's no Oh, I didn't know that. It was this, that or the other, you know, it really forces companies to step up and take, take responsibility. Take responsibility. Paul Maughan-Brown 38:41 Exactly, exactly. And that's also a key thing is that it's not, it's not necessarily putting the responsibility on the consumer, or managing the impact, but it's empowering people. So it's quite, it's quite important that we're not trying to say, it's, you know, it's the consumers fault, or the consumer has to be the consumer should be responsible, we believe, but but more than anything else, the consumer should be empowered to be able to make those types of informed decisions. Exactly. Because that's really part of the whole climate crisis is, is a real sense of disempowerment, or frustration, or a sense of, like, oh, what do I like, What do I do? You know, how do I like or this is, it's all a sort of high level and like, what can I actually but if you were able to in the grocery store, or the clothes store, wherever you were be able to say like, Oh, no, Okay, I'm gonna choose this over this. Yeah. And that's, that's the better, you know, according to my priorities, or whatever it might be. That's gonna be the more responsible decision. I think that it gives people a real sense of taking some control. Lena Samford 39:54 right, and that's, that's really exciting. And so other than that, Hopefully promoting that and letting people spreading awareness essentially about that initiative. And purchasing SOLE's shoes what how can people get involved with ReCORK specifically? Um, you know, you we kind of alluded to you have partners so kind of what does that look like for the individual to be able to make a difference. Paul Maughan-Brown 40:22 So anybody can get involved by recycling their natural wine corks. That's one thing that's important to point out we don't recycle any sort of plastic fake corks. Lena Samford 40:40 How can you tell the difference? Paul Maughan-Brown 40:42 That's a good question. It's not It's not always easy, you know, it's often actually the feel thing. More than the, you know, those plastic fake corks have sort of a waxy sheen to them. And also, with cork, as you pointed out, it can it can kind of crumble sometimes a little bit. So get stuck in Yeah. But is it gonna crumble a little bit or, you know, have one for reference, I've one that you know, is natural call for reference. Yeah. But what people can do is go on to ReCORK.com. Right there, we've got a tab saying get involved. And they can find ReCORK collection partners, public collection partners, we have a map with with locations, and you can bring your cork down to your nearest ReCORK location. And if there isn't one nearby, you can go to your local grocery store, or wherever it could be an office block, it can be anyone, anyone can sign up to be a collection points, and recycle corks either from the public or just in the back end of your own business. So if you run a restaurant or a bar, or you know, maybe you're a regular at a bar, you can go to the bar and say, Look, you guys go through a lot of corks, why don't you sign up to recycle your course it was really cool. It's the program is completely free. The only cost involved is actually shipping the corks to us. Lena Samford 42:21 And they can also find on your website, and you know, essentially one brands that have natural corks, right. Paul Maughan-Brown 42:30 Yeah, so we have a platform called cork watch. Yeah, it's a it's an open source platform for people to go and identify their own their own or not their own. But but but specific wine types that they've identified that have natural cork. Yeah, that's it's something that we often get is because we're first and foremost advocates for choosing cork. Something that I that I didn't say this is one of the stats that I like rattling off is that an aluminum screw cap takes 24 times more co2 emissions to produce than a natural cork. Wow. So choose natural color, when whenever you can, whether it be in the your wine, or in, you know, coasters or PIN balls, or whatever it is, if there's an option that's natural cork, choose the natural cork option, because that's the most environmentally friendly option you have available to you. In terms of, you know, go and check out coke watch, but it's also finding a finding of favorites. It can be difficult to because courts are usually covered up you know, Lena Samford 43:48 yeah, yeah. Do you have a favorite? Do you or your wine connoisseur Paul Maughan-Brown 43:53 not such a wine drinker? But you know what they actually are. You do find these days quite a lot of beers that are you know, a lot of craft breweries are moving into caulking their beers rather than using a traditional cap. Lena Samford 44:10 Okay, interesting. I'm catching that but I'm going to try to Yeah, yeah. Especially after hearing that aluminum gap stack off. Yeah. Yeah, crazy. Also, kind of before I let you off the hook here. Is there any misconceptions that you kind of want to lay to rest about cork or ReCORK or anything like that? Totally. Paul Maughan-Brown 44:33 Yeah, I'm glad you asked. You know, this this this this thing that happens? Often social media comments, or even I think things like Outdoor Retailer, people come up to us and they'll be like, but isn't cork endangered? Yeah, like why you have a cork was endangered. And it's just a complete I don't know where it came from. I don't know if it was the aluminum industry that you know Putting out false information Lena Samford 45:01 Maybe because not that many people are adopting it. I don't know. I don't know. That's, that's strange. Paul Maughan-Brown 45:07 Yeah, I really don't know. I don't know where it came from. But But well, the point is that that using coke doesn't harm the tree. There's no as soon as you know that harvesting coke doesn't harm the it doesn't the idea that it's endangered, and therefore you shouldn't use coke just doesn't make any sense, especially if you consider that almost everything these days and coke definitely falls into this bracket is controlled by human economies. So cork exists for as long as human beings have a financial incentive for planting and caring for cork forests like that as the so the biggest threat to cork is a collapse in the demand for cork. And then people going in saying, Well, you know, we don't have this isn't yielding us any value anymore financially. So we're going to replace these cork trees with, you know, whatever else it might be. So cork is not endangered. The more you use it, the better it is for the cork industry. The more you use it, the better it is for the planets, the more you use it, the better it is for yourself, probably because it's awesome. Yeah, Lena Samford 46:21 so that's the cork busters stamp of myth on that one. Exactly. Exactly. How can people get connected with you or your team? Paul Maughan-Brown 46:32 Find us on social media at ReCORK official on Instagram, or itsyourSOLE, Or me if you want to email me Feel free. I'm Paul@yoursole.com. Lena Samford 46:44 All right. Well, I'll be sure to link all those in the show notes. And I really appreciate you taking some time to chat with me today, Paul, Paul Maughan-Brown 46:52 no problem. I appreciate you having me in listening to my coffee enthusiasts Lena Samford 46:57 and we love it. We love it. Have a good rest of your day. Lena Samford 47:02 I hope you enjoyed this episode of hometown earth as much as I did. Let us know by rating and subscribing so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every week on Tuesday, head to the show notes linked in the episode description for more details and let us know in the comments what you want to hear next. You can find us on iTunes, Spotify, Google podcasts or anywhere you listen to podcasts, believe calm and at belief podcasts. And you can find more about the podcast on Instagram at hometown or connect with me personally at Lena Samford we all know change needs to happen. So let's get started right here at Hometown: Earth.