Ana Seiler  0:00  
We're kind of always given this cookie cutter image of who's supposed to be in the outdoors. That's what representation does. Right? It shows us that we aren't the first and there's a community of people, past and present that are encouraging us and supporting us in that new activity.

Lena Samford  0:16  
Welcome, neighbors to hometown are the podcast that brings a down to earth approach to all of your sustainability questions. I'm your host, Lena Samford here on the belief Podcast Network, the number one podcast network for professionals. Here we believe that everyone can change the world do you believe I'm a Midwest gal with big dreams to discover what it takes to reduce my impact on this beautiful place we call hometown or join me every Tuesday as we navigate what actions we can take big or small to make a positive impact in your life and the lives of your neighbors on hometown Earth. Hello neighbors. Have you ever gone on an outdoor adventure and felt truly uninhibited by finding the space to express yourself without restraint, allowing you to deepen your connection to yourself others and nature if you do a quick Google search of the venture out project, you're gonna find tons of images of beautiful smiling humans on outdoor adventures doing just that. The venture out Project is an organization that leads backpacking and wilderness trips for the queer and transgender community, creating space that is not only safe, but fun, educational and uplifting. They also conduct transgender inclusion workshops for educators, adventure professionals, summer camps and more. The venture out project is truly unique, drawing people with shared experiences who love the outdoors together to build an inclusive and caring community. Today you get the joy of meeting Ana Seiler marketing and partnerships coordinator at the venture out project. Ana is a breath of fresh air and encompasses the spirit of the outdoors. Although she currently calls the valley and Hill towns of Western Massachusetts home, Ana is originally from Maine and discovered her love for getting lost in the forested areas around New England in college, after graduating on explored her passion for native pollinators, regenerative homesteading, and farm to table food equity through Wolf, which stands for worldwide opportunities on organic farms, and through other various seasonal gigs. If you were looking, he might find her in a garden with her hands in the dirt, or attempting to keep up with her puppy Duncan on a trail somewhere. Her heart is with the land and the people who steward it, Fostering Connections that bridge the gaps of access and education and gender diverse outdoor spaces. In this episode, we learn more about how the venture out project empowers its ventures to find themselves at home in nature, while developing leadership skills and building relationships along the way. Ready to hear more, Let's venture out. I want to thank you so much for joining us here on hometown Earth. We know a little bit about your love for getting lost and exploring. But if you could just tell us a little bit more about how you got involved with the venture out project specifically

Ana Seiler  3:37  
for sure I you know, I grew up in Southern Maine So ironically, I never really, I never really connected as like an outdoorsy kind of person. I read a lot of books like hatchet and lost on a mountain in Maine, which kind of gave me this feeling about outdoor spaces is like dangerous or scary or like overtly masculine in that way. And so as a young woman and later as a young queer woman, I never really felt welcomed into those spaces and now looking back on it, I think it was kind of a lacking representation that led me to feel that way and things might have been different had that been different but you know, going through college in my last year as a senior as an in my undergrad I kind of like revolted from that. Yeah, and decided like I'm going to be an outdoor spaces, regardless of if I'm ready to be Yeah, so I did a number of hikes that you know, several miles in tennis shoes with not enough water and definitely not enough snacks. A learning experience Yeah, yeah, for sure. A little bit reckless on my end but I think I felt all those years of of being denied internally these outdoor spaces I had my partner had been on a TVOP hike in the past so I was familiar with the T vault name and kind of the fact that they lead queer and trans day hikes and overnight events but I didn't know anything other than that. I didn't know where they were located and after I graduated, I moved out to Western Massachusetts into the hill towns to pursue some agriculture work. I happened to be like 20 minutes from the TVOP offices. And yeah, it was kind of serendipity. But as a new queer person in a new area, almost a year into a pandemic, I was super, super desperate for community. And I signed up for one of their outdoor hikes their day hikes around mountain Tom, which was ironically, the same time that they had posted a position open for communication specialists. So I jumped on both opportunities to take hikes on them and join their team. And I feel like I came across them by pure magic, and it has felt like that ever since.

Lena Samford  5:41  
Oh, my gosh, I love that. Also, you know, one of the things that we talk about a lot on this podcast is how connecting with nature is is so important, because it allows us to stay healthy and really, like committed and connected to protecting the earth. So you know how that's not accessible for all people kind of what you led to, if you could talk a little bit more about the accessibility factor for you know, queer, trans and LGBTQ plus, you know, youth and adults in the outdoor and nature spaces.

Ana Seiler  6:18  
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, that really gets to the heart of what TVOP is about writing is about narrowing that those boundaries, those barriers that are keeping queer and trans youth and adults from exploring outdoor spaces. I think one thing that I can think of, I have a couple in my head that I can talk about, the first one is like representation in general, we're kind of always given this cookie cutter image of who's supposed to be in the outdoors. And I think that that really serves as a major limitations for queer and trans people when they don't see themselves represented outside, right. Like, you never, it doesn't. Unless you're like a super adventurer, it doesn't always feel good to be the first person to do something that you've never done before. Right? So you wouldn't want to be the first LGBTQ person to lace on some hiking boots and get out to explore some trails. And that's what representation does. Right. It shows us that we aren't the first and there's a community of people, past and present that are encouraging us and supporting us in that new activity. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Now the things that I can think of that are a little bit more tangible, you know, there's financial accessibility, it can cost hundreds of dollars to outfit yourself in a comfortable way for backpack like a weekend of overnight backpacking. Yeah. And financial accessibility, of course, that that can impact anybody across any identity. But for queer and trans people, specifically, you know, that's a super intersectional identity, or bipoc, queer and trans people, there are disabled, queer, and trans people. And all of these other identities face some sort of marginalization financially. So financial finances are a huge barrier. And then I think there's also you know, other things like, learning how to manage, there's like a learning curve of learning how to manage hormones, or medications, when you're on the trail, or finding gender affirming clothing that sits and is also appropriate for outdoor recreation, those are all some challenges that I can think of it that we actively work to kind of dismantle it at TVOP.

Lena Samford  8:18  
Yeah, so kind of what I'm hearing is it a little bit, you know, the representation side of things, but it also does, like, switch the narrative of like, who should be in the outdoors and kind of retell that story. So, I really love that and that y'all are doing that, can we maybe talk a little bit about, you know, representation, also, not only in you know, like organizational spaces, like having, I think you kind of touched on it a little bit is like the idea of what an outdoorsman, or you know, person is, is like that white sis, man. So, you know, how does this does this contribute also to representation and, you know, other organizations like National Park organizations, or even people seeing, you know, the diversity that is in nature and connecting with that aspect of things?

Ana Seiler  9:12  
Yeah. Oh, God, I love that question. It's so true. And we a lot of our partnerships are like non queer, non trans organizations looking to increase diversity in their conservation area or in their affinity group in some way. So I think there's definitely that desire in people in like human based scenarios as far as like non human scenarios goes. I like horticulture is kind of my thing. Yeah. That's kind of like my specialty at TVOP. I love that. Yeah. Which is kind of new for us. But I will say that, you know, nature in itself is kind of genderless I mean, it is genderless when you're in the back country when you're in these natural settings, You're not presented with the same stereotypes or expectations that people place on gender performances that you are in the front country. Like one of my favorite facts from horticulture is the fact that plants that have male and female reproductive parts, like male and female flowers on the same plant, they're considered a perfect plant, Right, so we wouldn't our dominant culture in the United States wouldn't necessarily say the same about a human. We're both both parts of anatomy. And I love that that TVOP is a place that people can go to really explore outdoors, and let go like drop off those the masks that we wear that allow us to kind of fit into society. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we're all going to be sweaty, we're all going to be a little bit dirty. And we're all going to be fully alive because we're able to let go of those things.

Lena Samford  10:53  
That just makes me all warm and fuzzy. Yeah, like y'all are here, like creating these spaces that are safe and equitable, which really is kind of a social justice issue. So can we talk a little bit more about how that intersects with climate justice?

Ana Seiler  11:13  
Yeah, absolutely. And, oh, gosh, I can think of so many ways. I think, in particular, when we think about like, environmental stewardship, right, we're talking about taking ownership of the land that we're recreating on on the land that is keeping us live, basically. And I think about that, quote, have you ever heard that quote, like, not my monkeys, not my circus,

Lena Samford  11:37  
I've never heard that though.

Ana Seiler  11:40  
Maybe that's a New England thing. But you know, that kind of means, like, if it's, if it's not my problem, I'm not gonna deal with it. Yeah. And when when people aren't connected with the land, when they are when they're just treating the earth is something that is serving them rather than them serving it. It disentangles it disconnects them from the fact that we're all in this one big, reciprocal relationship with each other, and with the land and with the creatures that live on it. And so what TVOP does, we get queer and trans people into outdoor spaces, we're building this community, we're strengthening bonds with each other, we're showing positive representation. But what we're also doing is we're we're allowing them to get comfortable with these outdoor spaces, we're allowing those connections to rebuild, that have been broken down by that white, straight sis able bodied male representation that we've always been given. And so we're kind of, we're disconnecting that thought of not my monkeys, not my circus, and allowing people to take ownership over this place that is bringing them so much joy and so much freedom. Yeah. And that, you know, that lends itself eventually to land stewardship and environmental stewardship and people feeling responsible for the places that they enjoy the most. Yeah,

Lena Samford  12:58  
I think part of it, you know, is like, like you mentioned, society is tells us to be individualistic and kind of like materialistic almost. But the spaces that y'all are creating allows people to connect and collaborate and communicate with each other and realize how everything kind of works together. So I think that that's what makes this space so important, and also creates leaders within the space because y'all are able to essentially come up with new ideas to help solve these problems. Is that something that you'll talk about when you're on these outdoor adventures? Or?

Ana Seiler  13:36  
Oh, my God? Yes, these questions are so good. Yeah, I mean, it's actually something that we're looking to implement more and more than more than on the trail, you know, that the outdoors is our office, and it's our playground, and it's the land that we love the most. And so I think that it's, it's kind of our duty as outdoor leaders, as outdoor recreation leaders to facilitate these conversations with people that like, maybe they've been backpacking their whole life, maybe this is their first time setting up a tent, you know. And it that can be really, really empowering. So, you know, around around dinner, we'll talk about the use of plastic that we're having to use in order to outfit our trips for meals, because of COVID. We kind of had we used to, we used to cook all of our meals in one big pot, and then divvied up. But because of COVID, we've had to kind of reinvent some of the ways that we're cooking and preparing food. And so, you know, there's a certain amount of there's a certain amount of plastic and things like that, that have to be used in backpacking, for weight reasons, the amount that you're carrying. So we try really hard to make that a part of the conversation when we can't eliminate it. Yeah, so So yeah, that looks like just chatting about it. Honestly, we have a lot. We host a lot of conversation and are very open to chatting about whatever our participants feel like needs to be addressed

Lena Samford  14:58  
or isn't education peace due to what y'all are doing there?

Ana Seiler  15:02  
Yeah. So you know, sometimes sometimes we queer people on trips queer and trans people who just kind of like, wanted to do the stuff like they just want to go out and they want to meet queer and trans people. They just want to go camping. Yeah. But then there's people that come out who are like, I want to pursue this passion on my own. Can you teach me about outdoor hygiene? Can you teach me how to build a fire? Can you teach me how to throw a bear bag? Yeah. So education naturally becomes a huge part of what our instructors are doing when they're out there on the trails. And we like to let our participants kind of decide what they want to do. No TVOP trip is like, we go out, we teach him how to string a bear bag, we go to bed. Yeah, next day, we we allow things to kind of take form as our participants want. But most frequently, that is some form of education along the way. And I think that's why we get a number of people wanting to come back with us on trips, because they're, they're feeling empowered, and they know that there's still so much to learn in our instructors are incredibly knowledgeable at passing on that information. So we're very privileged to have the instructors that we do, but there's a ton of education that goes into our work

Lena Samford  16:09  
well, so you know, how this the trips that y'all create, AR for specifically the queer and trans communities. So how can people be an ally, whether they're on trips that are, you know, hosted by TVOP, or even if they see something in the outdoors? How can how can people be an ally?

Ana Seiler  16:31  
I think, you know, a lot of people for this question might jump to like, the pronouns bit about like, it's really important that we're, that we're learning pronouns, that we're practicing them when we're driving alone in the car, that we're comfortable using pronouns, other than he, and she. And that is a huge part of it. I mean, we we have a whole trans 101 inclusion workshop that we lead for organizations and businesses and such that talks about pronouns and the importance of that. But I think we're at a point now where we're, we're also trying to encourage people to examine their relationships with gender. And deconstruct that a little bit. Because those are the things like gender language that we take in outdoor spaces. That kind of dictates whether a queer person and trans person feels welcome into those spaces, you know. So, for example, one of the things that we've, we've implemented at TVOP, of course, because of the work that we do, is kind of disassembling the way that we talk about hygiene, right? When we're on the trail or teaching people about, you know, proper Leave No Trace bathroom etiquette, personal hygiene things. Rather than saying something like, when women go to the bathroom, we'd say for people who squat to pee, so we're removing the gendered language out of that, because to be honest, anybody, anybody can squat to pee, and they resonate with that, yeah, what's important is that they're getting their personal hygiene needs met. And so things like that, I mean, that that kind of gendered language is back country and front country, etiquette that can be worked on by people. And I think that that would really open some people up to understanding both why it's so important that queer and trans people are able to get outside and access the outdoors. But it would also assist in queer and trans people feeling welcomed.

Lena Samford  18:14  
So kind of my my next thought there is, I feel like there's so much more to TVOP then what they might see even on the website. No, is there anything that you that comes to mind whenever I say that, like, is there any hidden like, you know, thing that you really wish people knew about the venture out project that maybe you even, maybe you can share a story that you know, one of your favorite trips, and maybe something that you've gotten out of it?

Ana Seiler  18:43  
Yeah, absolutely. I, oh, God. Well, I feel like, you know, growing up in Maine, I didn't get a ton of queer trans representation. And I think that it's kind of a given that you're going to get some queer and trans representation. If you come on a team up trip. That's what we do. And that's what our audience is made up of. But it kind of still surprises me. And I think it's because I didn't grow up with a ton of representation. i We recently this past August, we led a road trip to the Midwest, where we were like leading day hikes, and we had an overnight camp out where queer and trans people could come from wherever, and come on a hike with us and just meet us and get involved with us and to know that we exist and that we'd love to have them on a trip someday. And I just found myself like every hike that I went on, surprised that there were queer and trans people showing up really? Yeah, yeah, like, and that's kind of a response that I've had since I started working at TVOP. I mean, I feel like I've met more LGBTQ people in the last year than I had in my entire life combined. And I think that that I think that the community that we create is something that I want every LGBTQ plus person to experience. You know, it's it's so much more than that. backpacking, it's so much more than canoe camping or whitewater rafting or skiing or the the actual activities that we're doing. And it's so much more about, you know, not needing to explain to people why you're a trans man that had a baby, right? Or, or stuff like that, like, you don't have to explain yourself in the same way. And it's incredibly freeing, I think,

Lena Samford  20:20  
yeah, I feel like that everybody kind of needs to pay more attention to that. Because once you see people coming together and feeling so free in those spaces, and it would almost help you know, people like me, you know, realize that there's so much more out there, you know, I don't know, I feel like it helps us to connect with one another when we see people being their true, true selves. And that's not always accessible for for queer and trans people, unfortunately, so well, so do you have like a favorite trip that you want to tell us about?

Ana Seiler  20:52  
Well, I so like I said, I'm very like gardening based. So a lot of my backpacking experience actually has been with TVOP a lot of that more. A lot of the events that like require more expensive equipment and stuff I've had the privilege of doing through TVOP, one that was so fun that I did was called squats and summits which we're looking to hold something similar next year for our local queer and trans people. It's basically we team up with a local CrossFit gym in the area that is also queer, owned and operated. And we do some training beforehand, because I know that there's a lot of, there's a lot of fear for people about backpacking and like, not being quote unquote, strong enough or fit enough to do it. Um, so squatting summits lends itself to those fears, by equipping people with how to carry a bag and how to put it on and then like, doing all of the workouts and mechanics of hiking, yeah. And then we get out and we do some incredible climbs. And this past year, we had a huge variety of people, and a huge variety of experiences go out on that trip. And it was so fun to see how it all came together and to hear about people's life experiences. And just to see like have that representation of successful, happy LGBTQ people like made sets made such a difference for me. Yeah, and cheer for the other participants as well.

Lena Samford  22:16  
I love that. Well, is there anything that we haven't really like touched on that you're passionate about that you want to kind of share with the audience?

Ana Seiler  22:24  
What I can say is that we're kind of constantly looking to develop to evolve in new ways. There's not like a rigid path that we want to have to follow. We're very open to new partnerships and new opportunities and new events to lead. I mean, this past year, canoe camping and whitewater rafting was brand new for us, and it was hugely successful. And so we're really interested in trying a ton of other things like, like queer and trans dogsledding, like why not? You know, it's the air of excitement and curiosity that the TVOP team and the TVOP instructors brings. Yeah, it's just like so enlivening. And I would, I would say, for folks who are like, maybe curious about TVOP, but aren't really sure like if backpacking is their thing, or canoe camping is their thing. I would say like, just keep an eye on us, because I have no dirt. No idea what direction we're going. And who knows, maybe in the next year or two, we'll have a trip or event that like is right up your alley.

Lena Samford  23:21  
So yeah, do y'all have upcoming trips that people could get connected with? I know it's hitting winter, but yeah. Is there anything that's coming up that people could either get connected with or playing for in the future?

Ana Seiler  23:34  
Yeah, sure. So we do, we have two general trip releases a summer and a winter trip release. Our winter trip release is right around the corner. In the next week or two. I will say you know, we've got some really fun stuff happening in Colorado for some backcountry skiing we've and then we've got some a bunch of stuff in Vermont actually planned here in our local New England, from snowshoeing, to Nordic skiing to beginner intermediate ski weekends. We've got a bunch of stuff in the works. And things are kind of always popping up new right for us. So who knows, maybe in a month, we'll have another something else come up. As for summer trips, so we're looking at those that's more like our robust season right now. It's our fullest season, and we're looking to release those in like early 2022.

Lena Samford  24:21  
Nice so people can stay up to date with those on the website or something. Yeah, it's way to connect with the venture out project,

Ana Seiler  24:28  
I would say so we post everything on our website. But if you you know, our trips tend to fill up kind of fast. So if you're if you're looking to schedule something for yourself, I would keep an eye on our social media or Instagram is the adventure out project. Same with Facebook. Or you can sign up for our newsletter right on our website. And we'll be sending out links and everything as soon as those trips are made available.

Lena Samford  24:49  
Nice. Awesome. Well, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this. This interview is a long time coming. So

Ana Seiler  24:56  
yes, thank you so much for your patience over the busy busy summer season

Lena Samford  24:59  
I know I'm glad that it went so well. And thank you so much for joining me. I hope you have a good rest of your day.

Ana Seiler  25:05  
Thank you you too.

Lena Samford  25:06  
I hope you enjoyed this episode of hometown Earth as much as I did let us know by rating and subscribing so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every week on Tuesday, head to the show notes linked in the episode description for more details and let us know in the comments what you want to hear next. You can find us on iTunes, Spotify, Google podcasts, or anywhere you listen to podcasts fully calm and at belief podcasts. And you can find more about the podcast on Instagram at hometown earth or connect with me personally at Lena Samford we all know change needs to happen. So let's get started right here at hometown Earth

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